Friday, March 02, 2018

Naval Inaction 259 CE

        In the third century the Roman Empire was heavily beset by seaborne raiders. From c 251 to 270 CE, Goths and others launched a series of major assaults. The barbarians targeted the Danubian provinces of Moesia and Thrace, Greece, Asia Minor and islands in the eastern Mediterranean. 
      Aware of the possibility of attacks by sea, the Romans established four fleets to deal with them. One, the Classis Pontica, patrolled the southern Black Sea. Another, the Classis Moesica, defended the western part. If they failed to halt a thrust into the Mediterranean, the Classis Syriaca and Classis Alexandrina formed a reserve.
    Against the early incursions, the Roman navy performed well. Despite attacks in Anatolia and Greece in 251 and 253, the Classis Syriaca beat the enemy near Rhodes, Crete and Cyprus. Another raid on Anatolia in 254 was similarly beaten. In 256, Gallienus, co-emperor in the West (while Emperor Valerian was in Syria) launched counterattacks along the Rhine and Danube.
      In 259, however, a massive raid seems to have gone unopposed. Passing down the lower Danube in boats, the Goths first looted Moesia and Thrace, then reached the Propontis. With several hundred vessels they surrounded and overran Cyzicus, in the process neutralizing the Classis Pontica.  Proceeding southward, the marauders then plundered Athens, the Pelopponese, the Ionian coast and the temple of Ephesus. 
     On this occasion the Roman fleet was conspicuous by its absence. Where was the Classis Syriaca, which had distinguished itself a few years earlier? No doubt Roman historians would've mentioned any success in 259, just as they recorded victories before and after that date.
    The problem was the increased threat of invasion by land. In those circumstances, the navy lost men to the army.  With regard to the eastern fleets, the specific problem was Persia.
     By 259 the Romans were bracing themselves for a major Sassanian attack. The Persian king, Shapur, was eager to plunder Rome's eastern provinces. The Persians had already captured Dura Europos c 256, and in 258 Valerian, seeking the support of Odainathus, the Palmyrene ruler, made him vir consularis. The emperor must have known the Persians were coming, well before their invasion materialized in 260 CE.
     Considering the importance of Syria and Egypt to the Empire, Valerian was determined to protect them. If Syria were overrun, Egypt might go too, costing Rome most of its grain supply. So it is likely     Valerian, by 259, gave orders to maximize emphasis on the army, even if it meant sacrificing the eastern fleets. The soldiers manning ships were to be added to the legions guarding Syria.
       Valerian and his generals were aware of the risk they were taking. In order to focus on Persia,  they left the Balkans and Asia Minor to their fate. Experience had shown that the Classis Pontica (even if intact) was not sufficient to prevent Gothic penetration of the Aegean and beyond. 
      After Successionus, a Roman officer, won a victory against the Goths, Valerian promoted him. But the emperor seemed unable or unwilling to stop the sea assaults of 259.
 Valerian's gamble failed miserably. His sacrifice of Athens, and Ephesus etc did not prevent the smashing defeat of his army by Shapur, or the sacking of Syria.
       Fortunately for the Balkans and Asia Minor, Persia soon ceased to drain resources from the fleet. After 260, Sassanid power greatly ebbed. Odainathus's march on Ctesiphon in 262 attested to this. Apparently learning the lesson of 259, the Romans under Gallienus revived the eastern fleets.
In 268, with a rebuilt Classis Pontica, Venetianus demolished a Gothic fleet, and while its remnants sacked Athens, they were soon wiped out.
In 269 the Romans won the greatest naval victory of the Imperial era. Commanding the Classis Syriaca, Probus annihilated a Gothic armada. After destroying the barbarian warships the Romans captured those carrying civilians and baggage. The enemy, who first attacked Rhodes, Crete and Cyprus, failed utterly against Roman reserves, including the Classis Alexandrina, which assisted the Classis Syriaca.
   Probus's victory was decisive. For over a century, there were no further Gothic sea raids. The barbarians simply could not match Roman naval power, and their expeditions, while lucrative, ultimately proved too costly.




















A Roman warship battling Gothic raiders

Reference

Raffaele D'Amato Imperial Roman Warships 193--565 AD  Osprey Publishing 2017

31 Comments:

Anonymous Neal Robbins said...

The Roman navy was an essential part of Rome's military forces. It was important to keep control of the seas. Rome did a lot of trading and some of it was with India and Far Eastern countries, such as Vietnam, China, Burma, and Thailand. Roman coins and artifacts have been found at archaeological sites in those countries. Persia was definitely a tough opponent of Rome. Although Alexander the Great had conquered Persia, the Romans did not add it to their empire.

6:53 AM  
Blogger starman said...

Yes, in Valerian's time Persia was a tough opponent. The need for more troops to resist it caused the navy to be neglected by 259, with serious consequences.

March 2. 2018

7:12 AM  
Anonymous Neal Robbins said...

One of the strong points about the Persian army was its cavalry. That gave them a lot of mobility. Fighting the Persians was more difficult than fighting the Gauls. Alexander the Great had exceptional cavalry and was quite skillful in the way that he deployed his forces. As I mentioned, he was far more successful against the Persians.

8:14 AM  
Blogger starman said...

Sure Alexander conquered Persia, which Rome never did. But that owed much to the fact that Rome was much farther away and expanded to the west as well as east.
Btw what’s the weather like in AR? Here we just got a lot of rain but better that than snow!

March 3, 2018

1:55 AM  
Anonymous Neal Robbins said...

The weather here is mildly cool. It was sunny yesterday. However, it did rain a couple of days ago. The first two thirds of February here were bitter cold. It looks like there will be an early spring in AR. I am hoping that the 26th of March will be a day without rain, snow, or other precipitation. That is the day that some friends of mine and I plan to do a fossil collecting project.

5:44 AM  
Blogger starman said...

OK good luck on your fossil dig! What do you hope to find?

March 4, 2018

1:53 AM  
Anonymous Neal Robbins said...

Most likely we will find aquatic fossils. However, it's not impossible that we could discover some terrestrial fossil remains. The site has some Cretaceous invertebrates, including ammonites, though there are some shark teeth. Fragmentary plesiosaur remains have been found in Arkansas, though they were excavated in the southern part of the state. This fossil sites is not far from Dover, which is in the northwest portion of Arkansas. Only one dinosaur has yet been discovered in Arkansas. It is Arkansaurus fridayi. I would like to find another dinosaur to add to the menagerie.

5:38 AM  
Blogger starman said...

What is the name of the geological unit with those fossils? Is it late K age, Western Interior sea?

March 5, 2018

1:49 AM  
Anonymous Neal Robbins said...



It's late K age and Western Interior Sea. It would be especially great if we were to find some well preserved mosasaur or plesiosaur remains. Some fossils of Cretaceous sea reptiles have been found in Arkansas; however, they were discovered in the southern part of the state. I would like to have a documentary made on what all that we find at the site. Some animation of Cretaceous sea creatures could be included. That would give a fair amount of publicity to my area. I have talked to people here in Dover about it and they think that it would be great.

6:59 AM  
Blogger starman said...

Does the unit have a name? Is it of Campanian age?
Btw we’re now bracing ourselves for a big snowstorm...too bad. I was hoping we were finished with big winter storms, this season.

March 6, 2018

1:49 AM  
Anonymous Neal Robbins said...



My friend James is the one who knows where the site it, i.e. the exact location. He and I will go there in a few days, so that I can make some observations. Tentatively, the main excavation take place on the 24th, in which James, Clay Garretson, and those science majors from Hendrix College will collect the fossils. I looked at some geological charts of this region of Arkansas. From the looks of things, that site is in the Atoka Formation, most of which dates to the Pennsylvanian division of the Carboniferous. Excavating Carboniferous fossils would be fine. As you know, temnospondyl amphibians are among my favorite categories of vertebrates. I would very much like for our team to find some temnospondyl fossil remains. Although temnospondyls originated in the Carboniferous and there were also some in the Permian, Triassic, Jurassic, and Cretaceous periods. I should add that only a few taxa managed to straggle into the Cretaceous.

1:04 PM  
Blogger starman said...

OK good luck with the preliminary observations. It is best that actual collecting be done by the pros.
Here the snow has begun already and it’ll get heavier this evening.....

March 7, 2018

1:51 AM  
Anonymous Neal Robbins said...


We will be sure to notify the pros about it. It's not snowing here in Arkansas, but it is bitter cold. The wind was very vicious last night.

4:40 AM  
Blogger starman said...

OK keep me posted. Let me know if you find anything of interest.

March 7, 2018

8:30 AM  
Anonymous Neal Robbins said...

I'll be sure to let you know. I may be able to recruit some pros to come with us when the initial observations are made. It's also possible that I might be take part in the excavations with the pros supervising me.

8:43 AM  
Blogger starman said...

OK good luck. Early this morning I had to shovel heavy snow for 45 minutes. I wasn't expecting Old Man Winter to come back at us like this. Good thing the worst is behind us.

March 8, 2018

2:38 AM  
Anonymous Neal Robbins said...


Connecticut has been hard hit. We haven't had snow this month, though it was quite cold yesterday. It doesn't seem too bad this morning. I'll put it this way: I'm looking forward to spring. Next month, the reality show Deadliest Catch will have its new season on TV. The crab fishermen have already done their work on Bering Sea; that took place in December, January, and February. The films had to be processed, of course. Crab fishing in Bering Sea is a dangerous job; it involves working in sub-zero temperatures with waves splashing all over the deck and crab pots on chains swinging back and forth.

6:33 AM  
Blogger Adham said...

LONG STORY ShORT- I got a job- I got diagnosed with OCD but I am recovering and I apologize for the disappearance ...I work as an External Auditor and around 10+ hours per day!


I have something for you which you will definitely like

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/1975-09-01A.pdf

cheers

2:32 PM  
Blogger starman said...

Great to see you back, AdhamS! Congrats on getting a job, sorry to hear of the OCD. At times, I may have that condition myself, lol.
I already saw that declassified CIA study, but thanks anyway. :) I'm sure btw, some authors would question the accuracy of some of the data, for example, Israel losing no more than three jets, or at most 6, in air to air combat. Pollack wrote that Israel lost 5-8 in air battles on the Egyptian front and 6-10 over Syria, or a minimum of 11. Dupuy said 21 Israeli jets went down in air combat while Cooper more recently concluded the true figure is 25-30.

March 22, 2018

6:29 AM  
Blogger Adham said...

I definitely agree with you - it doesn't make sense that only 3 enemy fighters got shot down in TOTAL!

But damn, 25-30 planes only? Did our pilots (majority at least) suck that badly?


I always remember the "Bob Vickman" incident in 1948- I am sure you heard of it at least...its interesting yet sad how you have a huge margin when it comes to competency in the EAF- You have a few number that can go toe to toe with Western/ IAF pilots (in regards of quality) while the majority are ducks for some reason....how on earth do we have (if we actually did) such "aces" when the training regimen and what not is exactly the same? Combat experience plays a role for sure but even then- if it made much of a difference you would have at least 50 planes IAF shot down...

9:45 AM  
Blogger Adham said...

https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/12269828/orkaby_gsas.harvard_0084l_11420.pdf?sequence=1

10:17 AM  
Anonymous Neal Robbins said...


While I was serving in the U.S. Air Force, the F1-11 fighter plane was used. The Air Force now has a more advanced fighter plane that is officially called the A-10 Thunderbolt II. It is unofficially referred to as the Warthog. From what I've heard, it's an excellent plane.

11:20 AM  
Blogger starman said...

Hi guys, great to see the comments, even if their way off topic on this thread, lol.
Arab air forces were plagued by poor quality aircraft and weapons. The EAF and SAF flew the MIG-21. It usually had one 23mm or 30mm gun (some variants had none) a very limited supply of ammunition and crummy atoll missiles that often wouldn’t even lock on. To make matters worse the MIG-21 had limited range and endurance. Even before the F-15, the Israelis had Mirages with two 30mm guns and much better air to air missiles.
Russian advisors complained that Syrian pilots didn’t learn from experience. They kept blundering into Israeli aerial ambushes.
As for the Warthog, that was a ground attack plane. But the USAF has F-15s, F-35s etc. The F-22 Raptor may be the best fighter ever.

March 24, 2018

2:00 AM  
Blogger starman said...

Thanks AdhamS, for the article on the Yemen conflict. Pollack covered that quagmire in his ARABS AT WAR.
I thing I found very interesting was the account of Egyptians using truck headlights to get Yemeni royalists to reveal their positions. Contrary to what Pollack (and Fawzi) wrote, it seems some Egyptian officers DID show great initiative.
By the way a correction: In the first sentence of the comment above, I meant "... they are (not "their") way off topic." :0

March 24, 2018

3:03 AM  
Blogger Adham said...

BTW did I ever tell you about my comic? It started initially as a novel but I switched in a comic format, been doing a lot of research in theology, politics, military and history and no wonder I had my OCD triggered! I was trying to understand what makes the mind of ISIS/ Salafi-Wahhabi/ Al Qaeda etc etc tick and I finally found it and its roots go back to centuries... I am planning to present all their claims with academic honesty while countering it with Progressive Muslims counter points...Oh and I left the Sunni Sect in general but have no qualms with any other sect unless they instigate violence and aggrandize it.

How is that all related to my topic? I am covering the Yemeni Civil War (previous one) with fictional states and what not but essentially parallel to what happened in the real world and delving into the Monarchy VS Arab Nationalism and how KSA used their oil money to spread their version of Islam that literally is an opponent to logic, reason and universal morals and ethics. AS well as the decline of the "original " Salafis lead by the progressive Imam Muhammed Abduh who played an important role in revolutionizing Al Azhar until it became stagnant after the 60s and came the rise of Wahabbism.

I am covering the civil war in the air and on ground - trying to find any sources regarding what type of fighters/bombers/attackers we used during that period ...the errors committed by both sides and if possible actual reports of COIN missions ...I am also creating a scene where a "Saudi" Propeller (P-51s - early civil war) planes engage "Republican" Yaks and get intercepted by MIG 15s ...... I am also trying to present the EAF pilot (rookies,veterans and aces) as accurately as they were in real life during that period...which is extremely difficult.


By any means do you have any other sources for that war? I am also covering the war of attrition and 75 (1973) war.

And all of that ....is just the back story - not even the main one which takes place in 2028.

The story- either I will finish it or it will kill me.

4:43 AM  
Blogger starman said...

OK good luck with your literary effort. :)
As for sources on the Yemen war, did you see PHOENIX OVER THE NILE A HISTORY OF EGYPTIAN AIRPOWER 1948-1994? Presumably it covers the EAF involvement in Yemen but I'll have to consult the book to be sure. It's been some time since I read PHOENIX OVER THE NILE. I know I have it here but I'll have to "dig it out."

March 25, 2018

5:55 AM  
Blogger starman said...

I didn't remember the title correctly. It's 1932-1994. The EAF's role in Yemen is covered on pages 188- 191. There is only one personal account, by Brig. General Tamim Fahmi Abd Allah.


March 25, 2018

6:06 AM  
Blogger Adham said...

Thanks! I actually was doing a research for a long while regarding what rifle Egyptians used for their marksmen/ Snipers and I think I reached a conclusion that it is the Hakim rifle chambered in 8mm.

6:46 AM  
Blogger starman said...

Was the Hakim well-suited to long range sniping? I read it was replaced by the AK47, not a sniper rifle. Didn't the Egyptian snipers (one of whom hit Dayan's son if I remember correctly) get the Soviet Dragunov?

March 25, 2018

11:45 AM  
Blogger Adham said...

Negative good sir and I will later on send you some "evidence" so to say ....


12:14 PM  
Blogger starman said...

OK I'll await your evidence--why not post it in the latest thread?

March 26, 2018

1:53 PM  

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