EAF Mistakes 1973
In Volume 6 of ARAB MIGS 1973 WAR, Cooper et al. claim the Egyptian Air Force (EAF) made a number of mistakes. Below are summaries of these alleged errors, and my comments:
- The EAF leadership (i.e. Hosni Mubarak) cancelled the second wave of airstrikes on October 6. The first wave, consisting of 220 aircraft, had supposedly achieved all objectives. Ergo, there was no need for followup attacks. Cooper, however, wrote that cancellation of the second wave exposed EAF helicopters to excessive Israeli resistance, resulting in high losses. He also believed the opening strikes cost Cairo only 6 jets.
In his Arabs at War, Pollack attributed cancellation of wave two to the high losses suffered by wave one. This is the most likely scenario. I doubt EAF losses of the first wave amounted to only six aircraft. The Egyptians may have lost 4 SU-7s heading toward central Sinai and several MIGs at Ras Nasrani. Israel's report of seven MIG-17s and a MIG-21 knocked down in the latter battle appears more credible than Egypt's claim to have lost only two aircraft. Total losses for the 6th may have approached 20. Cancellation of the second wave was due to fears that a thoroughly alerted enemy would destroy another 30 or more EAF jets, severely impairing Egyptian capabilities for the rest of the war. Calling off phase two was not a mistake but a prudent decision.
- Mubarak, the "hero" of Egypt's mythical victory of the 14th, actually blew a golden opportunity to maul Israeli squadrons. According to Cooper, Mubarak failed to deploy his MIGs properly. I'm not sure how he may have done better but it seems the MIGs were unprepared to meet the first attacking Phantoms. Kadri Hamid and other EAF pilots were almost out of fuel when they were forced to fight the enemy. Hamid's base, Mansourah, was not properly defended. Lack of ready aircraft at the time may support Cooper's view.
- The EAF, Cooper maintained, blundered by focusing its attacks on the Israeli crossing area at Deversoir. This area was too well guarded by flak, interceptors and HAWK SAMs, resulting in inordinate Egyptian losses. The EAF, in Cooper's view, should have struck Israeli vehicle convoys on the Tasa road leading to the crossing area.
posted by starman at 1:02 PM
45 Comments:
The first wave must have had substantial losses. Egyptians were prone to give distorted accounts. This not only had to do with downplaying their own losses; it also involved inflating the number of Israeli casualties in reports.
Hi Neal,
The authors show that Israeli accounts can be distorted too. Although I think some Israeli accounts are more credible, at times the authors make a good case that the arab version is better.
To cite one example, the Israelis once claimed to have downed 9 Syrian jets when the SAF committed no more than 8. I'm not sure the Syrians were truthful but it's possible the Israeli claim was exaggerated. Cooper notes unofficial Israeli sources support the Egyptian version at times.
What were the biggest EAF planes to attack on October 6?
The Egytians say the first wave achieved its objectives. What was accomplished?
What weapons did a MIG-17 have?
How did EAF jets compare to Israeli F-4s and Mirages?
Hi Emmanuel,
The biggest EAF jets were the TU-16 bombers. The first wave hit Israeli artillery, radar and HAWK batteries, airfields, command and control centers and possibly some tanks.
MIG-17s could carry a limited amount of bombs and rockets and were also armed with 23mm and 37mm guns.
EAF jets were much inferior to Israeli jets in terms of armament. Israeli jets had far better air to air missiles, much better payload capacity and better endurance.
Did Egypt lose any TU-16s on October 6?
Was the MIG-17 any good at dogfighting?
What were Egypt's MIG-21 varriants?
Which MIG-21 was best for air combat?
God questions emmanuel.
Egypt lost at least one TU-16, in an crash.
The MIG-17 could be a formidable opponent in a dogfight. One Israeli source said that, given a good pilot, a MIG-17 "could tear a Shahak (Mirage) apart."
In 1973 Egypt had the MIG-21MF and the MIG-21F-13.
Volume 6 of the ARAB MIGs series says the MIG-21F-13 was better than the MIG-21MF at air combat because it had a 30mm gun, which was more powerful than the MF's 23mm gun, and MIG-21F-13 pilots were trained exclusively for air combat not attack missions.
Oh I meant GOOD questions.... :)
Did MiG-17s kill any Israeli air craft?
Could the EAF have prevented entrapment of the Third Army by interdicting Israeli truck convoys west of the canal?
Yes MIG-17s killed a few Israeli aircraft in 1973. An Egyptian MIG-17, fighting in Syria, shot down an Israeli Phantom. Another Egyptian MIG-17 was credited with a Mirage, downed around October 8.
What might've happened had the EAF gone all-out to attack Israeli reserve forces on the northern coastal road of Sinai on october7?
Did EAF airstrikes accomplish anything on the 14th?
The EAF might've devastated Israeli reservists and supply convoys on the northern coastal road as it was then packed with traffic. There could've been considerable delay and disruption. But the EAF probably would've paid a high price since the northern coastal road was relatively close to Israeli bases. It would've helped had EAF MIG-17s and Su-7s resorted only to strafing without carrying bombs to maximize endurance i.e. to be able to fly to the target areas and back at low altitude and high speed (thereby reducing the risk of interception).
EAF airstrikes seem to have accomplished little on the 14th but it seems at least something--an Israeli ammunition dump--was destroyed. A MIG-17 flew into a detonation column caused by a wingman's attack.
Seems I overlooked your previous question.
It would've been asking a bit much for the EAF to stop Adan's drive southward to Suez. But if it had focused on supply columns heading south to keep Adan going, that might've made a difference. Had interdiction of supplies delayed Adan by just one day, it could've saved the Third Army from entrapment.
Did Egypt ask for more modern jets than the MIG -21st variants?
What jets did Egypt get after 1973?
Yes, as I wrote, Sadat sought to get the MIG-23 in 1971. It wasn't really more modern though, especially not its weapons.
After 1973, Egypt got the MIG-23, but had it only briefly, as it obtained European and American jets like the Mirage 2000 and F-16.
Should Egypt have asked for more SU-20s from Moscow?
Should Egypt have pressured Ghadafy into paying for more Su-20s for the EAF?
Or tried to get him to buy MIG-23s or Tu-22s for the EAF instead of Mirages for his LAF?
Was the hawker Hunter a good plane?
Yes Egypt should've sought more SU-20s from Moscow and tried o obtain more funding for them. And it should've tried to induce Ghadafy to buy TU-22s instead of Mirages.
Yes the Hunter was a good plane, maneuverable, albeit subsonic I think, with good cockpit visibility.
Why is the Israeli version of the Ras Rasrani battle more credible? Why do you think the Israelis knocked down several MIG-17s and a MIG-21?
There is a photo of a Phantom chasing a MIG-17 over Ras Nasrani. The Phantom was in a position to shoot the MIG down, and appears to confirm the Israeli account that their F-4s successfully went after the MIG-17s.
Cooper et al. doubt the Israeli version in part because the Israelis showed wreckage from only one downed EAF jet even though five should've been lost over land if their version is correct. Not sure how to answer that--maybe they only photographed one which had identifiable markings(?) It is, of course possible they downed fewer than the 8 jets claimed, but still more than two.
Wasn't Dayan nearly kill by a helo attack near the crossing area?
Could the Egyptians have done better at Ras Nasrani?
I wouldn't say Dayan was nearly killed because the helicopter just dropped napalm nearby, before it was downed. The crew should've tried to machinegun Dayan.
As for Ras Nasrani the MIGs should've hit the Phantoms on the ground before they could take off. Additional strafing passes at slow speed might've done it.
I heard that Egypt wanted the mirage F-1 in the late 1970s. What if it had been equipped with 200F-1s instead of MIG-21 in 1973?
Did the F-1 have a better air to air missile than the MIG-21MF?
Also would Egypt have done better with western tanks instead of Soviet T series tanks?
Sure the F-1 had a much better missile than the MIG-21. F-1s had the Matra Magic missile, at the time "the only true dogfight missile in service" (See the AW&ST publication BOTH SIDES OF THE SUEZ 1975).
Two hundred F-1s would've given the EAF a much more formidable interceptor force than a comparable number of MIG-21s.
And yes, Egypt would have done better had it been armed with western tanks such as the British Centurion. Western tanks were designed partly on the basis of the experience of the North African campaign of 1940-43. They were better suited to desert warfare than Soviet armor. (See THE YOM KIPPUR WAR 1974 by the London insight Team).
Did Egypt even contemplate hitting air base in Isreal proper on October 6?
Could it have used Libyan Mirages to strike such bases?
What bases, if any might have come under attack?
Yes, Egypt did contemplate attacking at least one base in Israel proper; in fact your question prompted me to write a whole new post!
As the new post states, Hatzerim; I also envisaged a larger plan involving attacks on two other major bases.
And yes, Egypt could've used LAF Mirages for such a mission.
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